Help me see why Thielen > Barkley (Overdrive)
Ok, it's pretty obvious looking at the top 100 that way more people are having success with Thielen over Barkley. I am just about to finish my first season outside the top 500 because I tried to use Thielen for a whole season and I just don't get it. I get the 8x Receptions about 90-95% of the time, but my floor is just so much lower with Thielen that I'm losing more games when the doomswitch decides I lose.
Has anyone used both and can tell me definitively why they prefer Thielen over Barkley? The pressures end up amounting to the same, and yea it's great to use different kind of plays but I haven't noticed my scores getting much higher, so maybe it's the play calling?
Quote from layd2rest >> Thiellens bonus can involve all players on your team using any play in the playbook.
Why limit yourself to certain plays
Thielen's bonus requires you to catch the ball. Barkley's bonus requires to snap the ball on short pass plays. Huge difference.
Thiellens bonus can involve all players on your team using any play in the playbook.
Why limit yourself to certain plays
It's three things:
- 16 second gives you a lot more time to call your final pressure, with Thielen you activate it around 45 seconds left in the match(if you time it right). With Barkley its 35 seconds, that 10 second different will hurt you if your opponent has a lead. They can just not run a play with about 20 seconds left to go, not calling a play with 30 seconds left is a huge difference. Also if you call the pressure while your opponent is in a play that time can almost be cut in half, it's just more breathing room to get all your pressures in.
- You get a WR that you can use in 3 different positions, just place him in whatever position you pass to the least.
- 10 short passes is rough, if you play an opponent that hits you will multiple long or PA Pass pressure its hard to get your caption bonus. When you have Hail Mary and X Follow you have about 6 passes covered without really trying.
I am a Barkley user. I will admit using Barkley does hamper your one play TD ability compared to other captains. Barkley users are restricted to short pass players for 70 percent of the match which is the biggest downside to using Barkley. I have found certain short pass plays (total of 4) that have one play TD ability. However, only one of the routes will allow for one play TD...while the other 3 to 4 routs are not which is why it's tough compared to long pass plays which has 2 to 3 one play TD routes (hence why hailmary and 4 verts is so popular).
At this point I am still sticking with Barkley mainly because I find that often your in a situation that requires you to do a quick short pass near the endzone to get the TD (happens 3 to 4 times or more per match). This actually cuts in half the need using short pass plays as a long bomb single play TD. Since the other situations require you to use short pass plays near the endzone. Once I hit my captain bonus I unleash 3 to 4 long pass or PA plays.
this thread has my considering giving Barkley a run sadly. I have been a Thielen user from day 1 and have had some success, finishing around 600-700 each OD season. There are ways to beat Lynn with Thielen/Reich, WC does have enough plays to roll with the 2pt pressures and win.
Some short passes drag route can easily bring home. They are just as good as any long pass go-route. And if you have Texas, there are 3 short passes that can go deep.
And if you just bomb the whole game, you will realize that your passes just can't do it. You keep having weird drops. Then, you can fall behind from getting 8x completion bonus.
It not about the time it take for you to deactivate it. I'm trying to disrupt you since I figure you need to do short pass, which like other have say have less chance for a long yardage.
Even with short pass your chance of hitting a home run on me are less than someone who is not restricted by it. Also, if you go away from your short pass it mess with your game plan. The point of me activating 2pts is to change your game plan and disrupt you.
Quote from tb17 >> Quote from Java >> You could also add that thielen is faster (16secs compared to 17sec) so you have some more room for pressures/general coach choice.
Of cause in the end, if you are better dont running thielen its up to you to not use him. That the majority prefers him doesnt make Barkley worse/thielen better.
Quote from BillWalton >> Even you can fire your 5th pressure, it may be too late with the 17 sec captain. This is the major drawback.
As far as getting Barkley's bonus, it is easier than Thielen. You only need to call 10x short passes, not nesccary complete them. You take sack. You throw a pick. You run with the ball on short pass play. Everything counts.
So, you start the match with 2 short passes before 1st pressure comes. Once you pass the pressure, you continue with more short passes. Until you reach 40-50-40 zone, you start to bomb long. And you can save the final short pass until the last 10 second to surprise your opponent with 350+ points in one play.
Quote from Riceninja >> The reason is when I see a user with Barkley as a captain, I will activate Coach Lynn 2pts as quickly as I can. Because I know at this point I have an advantage over you.
nah, you only have an advantage if you hit ppl not knowing their short passes lol
Quote from Java >> You could also add that thielen is faster (16secs compared to 17sec) so you have some more room for pressures/general coach choice.
Of cause in the end, if you are better dont running thielen its up to you to not use him. That the majority prefers him doesnt make Barkley worse/thielen better.
The problem is that I'm not sure if I'm running Thielen correctly to determine if I should be using him or not. I know for most people it's just spam and pray but I really think there's something missing in my play if my scores are better with Barkley.
Quote from Riceninja >> The reason is when I see a user with Barkley as a captain, I will activate Coach Lynn 2pts as quickly as I can. Because I know at this point I have an advantage over you.
But in reality you don't get more than you would with Thielen? At most you would get one more play...
If you activate instantly on Thielen, it's 4 bars for me to cancel it, so you get 64 seconds less the time it takes you to activiate.
If you activate instantly on Barkley, it's still...4 bars for me to cancel it, so you get 68 seconds of time instead of 64.
Is that 4 seconds really enough to justify an instant mash on the button?
Quote from tb17 >> Quote from dadadadann >> Not sure in what case you'd pull off 10 short pass plays with less than 8 receptions & win...
It requires the opponent sucking really bad too, but its actually happened in Elite/HoF.
It'll usually go with me missing my first 5 or so passes, hitting every run pressure while having them failing every run pressure (That's good for 400-500 or so points for me), then 200 for Saquon bonus, maybe 200 total for yards/TDs, and some INTs/Sacks/Fumbles and you can still get 900-1000 scoring 2 TDs and less than 8 receptions. That's more than possible to beat a doomswitched opponent (Of course a regular HoFer should easily crush this average)
Even you can fire your 5th pressure, it may be too late with the 17 sec captain. This is the major drawback.
As far as getting Barkley's bonus, it is easier than Thielen. You only need to call 10x short passes, not nesccary complete them. You take sack. You throw a pick. You run with the ball on short pass play. Everything counts.
So, you start the match with 2 short passes before 1st pressure comes. Once you pass the pressure, you continue with more short passes. Until you reach 40-50-40 zone, you start to bomb long. And you can save the final short pass until the last 10 second to surprise your opponent with 350+ points in one play.
Personally, bonus requirement like this should be removed from the game. You get it from calling the play (even you get credit to throw the ball away) instead of MAKING the play.
Quote from dadadadann >> Not sure in what case you'd pull off 10 short pass plays with less than 8 receptions & win...
It requires the opponent sucking really bad too, but its actually happened in Elite/HoF.
It'll usually go with me missing my first 5 or so passes, hitting every run pressure while having them failing every run pressure (That's good for 400-500 or so points for me), then 200 for Saquon bonus, maybe 200 total for yards/TDs, and some INTs/Sacks/Fumbles and you can still get 900-1000 scoring 2 TDs and less than 8 receptions. That's more than possible to beat a doomswitched opponent (Of course a regular HoFer should easily crush this average)
Ok, it's pretty obvious looking at the top 100 that way more people are having success with Thielen over Barkley. I am just about to finish my first season outside the top 500 because I tried to use Thielen for a whole season and I just don't get it. I get the 8x Receptions about 90-95% of the time, but my floor is just so much lower with Thielen that I'm losing more games when the doomswitch decides I lose.
Has anyone used both and can tell me definitively why they prefer Thielen over Barkley? The pressures end up amounting to the same, and yea it's great to use different kind of plays but I haven't noticed my scores getting much higher, so maybe it's the play calling?