Muthead
+0

Is Mahomes already on the Mt. Rushmore of QB's?

I know this isn't about MUT, but this site is so dead that it shouldn't matter anymore.

Brady, Montana and Manning are the only 3 QB's in league history that I can make a solid case to have had a better career than Mahomes if he retired today. There are another 5-7 guys you could make an argument for, but I think Mahomes is sitting at #4 personally.

Msuchancey

I’m not sure you can put him at #4 right now, but if he keeps playing he will move into the top 4 (and possibly end up #2….or even #1).

Right now, #4 could be Elway. I’m a big Marino fan despite no rings - I think that all things aside, he was the greatest passer of all time. Drew Brees was great too.

tecmoeaglesqb12

I thought I heard Will Levis is?

Way too early to even put him in this conversation.

gbwisc
1 point

You still wanna crown Mahomes and put him on Mt Rushmore? What’s going to be the narrative / excuse when the refs can’t pull one out of the bag for him?

sleddneck

Refs are trash. But come on man. I'm not a chiefs fan but mahomes is probably the best QB to ever play the game. Pretty sure the vast majority of football fans and players alike would agree. If injuries don't shorten his career his number will end up backing that up. The guy is incredible . Everyone has a bad game

kabobbobs6

Already? No. Will he be? Yes

gbwisc

Mahomes does have insane numbers, but longevity will determine how great he goes down as in history. In the last 4 years, Mahomes has played 56 games to A-Rod's 50, but Mahomes has 560 more attempts and 358 more completions. 20 more TDs but 16 more interceptions. Kirk Cousins has 7 seasons throwing for 4,000+ yards, Montana has ZERO. Montana's highest TDs in a season is 31, sag. My point it two-fold, first comparing stats with QBs who can't get hit, have every offensive advantage in the world, and also is now a 70% passing league against people from different era's doesn't make sense. Second, you can make the stats say anything to support your argument. I don't think Mahomes is better than A-Rod and am not sure he's that much better than Burrow or Josh Allen overall. Put them on the Chiefs and they'll have won 2 SBs as well. Put Mahomes in Cincy and he has zero. Andy Reid doesn't get enough credit for what he's done in KC. A-Rod is a 4x MVP, all time leader or near the top in many active and career categories. You can knock him and say he only has 1 SB, but we don't know that Mahomes will ever have more than 2.

sleddneck

Mvps are the most meaningless stat. It's nothing but popular vote. Means nothing

4north82xbox

Andy Reid is a great coach. One of the best offensive minds in league history. However....

Andy Reid 19 years without Mahomes: 1 Super Bowl Appearance and 0 Super Bowl Wins. Andy Reid 5 years with Mahomes: 3 Super Bowl Appearances and 2 Super Bowl Wins.

Andy Reid 19 years without Mahomes: 11-13 post-season record (1-4 with Chiefs) Andy Reid 5 years with Mahomes: 11-3 post-season record

The Kansas City Chiefs were around for 58 years before Mahomes. They were 9-18 in the post-season. 1-1 in The Super Bowl with an AFL Championship in 1962.

The Chiefs had 1 playoff win in the last 25 years before Mahomes became the starter in 2018. 1993-2017: 1 post-season win. 2018-2022: 11 post-season wins.

What changed in 2018?

With Mahomes, it's not just the "insane numbers". He has IT. He is the reason The Chiefs have done what they've done the last 5 years. As evidenced above, Andy Reid was below .500 in the post-season with no rings as a head coach, until Mahomes. The Chiefs hadn't had any real post-season success in 50 years before Mahomes.

Tyreek Hill left, and Mahomes won an MVP and a Super Bowl anyway.

The Chiefs Defense has never been considered elite or even close to elite until this season. The Chiefs have never had a dominant running game, so teams aren't stacking the box allowing Mahomes to pick apart an overmatched secondary, it's actually the opposite. Teams are selling out to stop Mahomes, and still can't.

Mahomes counting stats are not the reason I have him currently ranked 4th, they're just the icing on the cake.

Do I like Mahomes? Yeah. From everything I've seen in interviews, commercials, etc. he seems like a good dude. Similar to Andy Reid and Travis Kelce, it's hard to root against him like I did The 90's Cowboys, The 2000's Patriots, the 2010's Seahawks, etc.

Am I a Mahomes fan? No. He delivered one of the most painful sports fandom days of my life. I have no ties or allegiance to anything to do with Mahomes, I just appreciate greatness when I see it.

Aaron Rodgers is one of the 5-7 guys I was talking about who is in the discussion, but IMO he falls short of Mahomes, even after only 5 seasons. Mahomes to me is like Jim Brown. It didn't take 15-20 years to realize he's built different, and he accomplished as much or more than most people who played twice as long as him.

gbwisc

I can write a narrative as well... the Chiefs were 29-63 in the 6 years before Andy Reid arrived. The 1st year he was there he took a 2-14 team to the playoffs at 11-5 with a lowly Alex Smith at QB. Reid went 53-27 in the 5 years before Mahomes, HE was the one that engineered the turnaround (with the help of the GM / Charles / Kelce / Hill). Mahomes simply took an already great team and pushed them over the top. Acting like the Chiefs weren't a perennial playoff team the 5 years before Mahomes is disingenuous.

Mahomes is taking advantage of being "the face of the league" and highly questionable officiating calls have gone his way for years. Not even mentioning this season, but the AFC Championship game against the Bengals last year was SO egregious for KC, non-biased people were absolutely certain the league was pulling for Mahomes. It was a disgrace.

I'm not sure about your Chiefs defense narrative either, they had a top 10 defense in 2019 (7), 2020 (10) , and 2021 (8), last year they were 16th. Maybe not "elite", but very respectable. Compare that to the prime of Aaron Rodgers from 2011-2018 where the Packers were dead last, in the high 20's 4 years and the high teens the other 5.

I guess if you think that Calvin Johnson is better than Jerry Rice, that argument of "who was best in their prime" could have weight, but a Mt Rushmore has to take into perspective an entire career, and Mahomes simply hasn't earned it yet. If you made blind resumes out of both candidates, ZERO people would pick Mahomes over Rodgers.

4north82xbox

Calvin Johnson's prime wasn't even remotely close to Jerry Rice's prime. You completely lost me on that comparison. Not only did Rice have the longevity, he also had the best prime of any WR in NFL history. Dude was the unquestioned best WR in the game for 11 years before a knee injury.

Andy Reid is a great coach, but the numbers don't lie. Patrick Mahomes is the biggest reason The Chiefs have been to 5 straight AFC Title games and won 2 of the 3 Super Bowls they've been in. Andy Reid had nearly 2 decades of data as a head coach and the majority of his accolades have come in the 5 years he had Mahomes.

Aaron Rodgers took over for a team that was 3 points from going to a Super Bowl the year before. I could name all of the pro-bowlers that Rodgers has played with over the years, mainly on the O-Line and WR, but you know that already so it's not worth wasting my time. Rodgers also had 2 head coaches over his entire career. People like to shit on McCarthy for some reason but dude is winning 12+ games every year with a QB that you think is complete shit, so he can't be that bad.

I know it hurts bro, I think that Mahomes will eventually pass Montana on the list too, but I'll have no problem admitting it when it happens. Brady is the only one who I think is likely out of reach.

I have to interject about the Calvin Johnson vs Jerry Rice prime debate. Depending on what span of time is determined to be their “primes”, this argument can be very close. If we were to narrow it down to a season Calvin very well may have Jerry, but anything longer than 3 Jerry starts running away with it. Jerry’s longevity at an extremely high rate is what puts him up top. But if you were to take anything within a 3 year span of both players primes, its close.

sleddneck

Montana played a very different nfl. Different time period. Not even close to the same game. So comparing his numbers to today's players isn't a real argument. People that have watched both eras know this. Montana also won all his superbowls with HOF teammates at every position. In my opinion. Montana really showed his greatness when he and Marcus Allan took a 3-13 cheifs team to a 13-3 record only to lose a dog fight of a game to the broncos powerhouse team who later won the superbowl. I think all time greats would be all time greats in any Era. And u can't mention all time greats without mentioning my boy Drew Brees. I mean he only held just about every nfl record when he retired and out played all the HOF QBs of his Era on his superbowl run. Including beating Peyton manning in the superbowl . That's my take lol. Good thread

therealmcpassion
1 point

You know I myself find it hard to put Mahomes clearly above Rodgers. Dude will probably forever be underrated because (in my humble opinion) he is one of the greatest talents at the QB position. Im also a huge Mahomes fan but Rodgers has always been on of my favorites.

Synopsis

His stat averages are higher than anyone mentioned in this thread. He has the records for just about every fastest to x yards, x tds, etc... Arm strength is nuts, he has thrown for 70 in the air in game. He has a 6th sense when under pressure. Makes any throw that can be done from any angle. He could be unfortunate like Julio Jones and get injuries that nag and reoccur. Jones had the best 6 year stretch of any wr in history but you can't fairly claim him as a rushmore wr(he is my all time favorite player). If Mahomes stays healthy though, he will end as that guy, and likely by miles.

I really feel like Calvin Johnson could have been the GOAT of WRs if he just played a few more years.

Synopsis

He very well could have. Stafford was still there slinging it for 5 seasons after Johnson retired. Wouldn't have really been any changes that would have limited his production besides staying healthy.

Steelcurtain_86

He’s outside of my top 5. I have Brady, Peyton manning, Montana, Brett Farve, and Elway.

FLBulldog

Staubach. Mahomes is fantastic. His stats are gaudy, but also a product of when he is playing the game. His career would have ended 5 years ago, running the way he does, if defenders could hit him. HOFer for sure at this point.

Steelcurtain_86

Totally agree with you if he had played in the 90's he would have retired. You can't even look at a QB or you will be flagged for roughing the passer

layd2rest

Years ago this site was booming. A thread could make it to the 2nd page ASAP. I think MM is 8 years old now, maybe 9. Times have changed. With games like Call Of Duty Mobile and how strong mobile games are. Games look like PS4 on mobile. If EA just reworked the game with the right devs and game engine they have access too. It could really be a big business move. Really gameplay should look like PS4 right now

Steelcurtain_86
-2 points

WTH are you talking about, wrong thread bro!

Dreverse
-1 point

I no I was thinking the same thing as I was reading this 🤣😂🤣😂

Ballsy
1 point

Hopefully he does retire today so we can put this theory to the test

4north82xbox

I haven't really watched Broncos this year. On paper Russ has been pretty good, is he? Colin Cowherd says no, but Colin Cowherd is kind of a blowhard who is more worried about stroking off Payton.

Ballsy
-2 points

I tried to give him 2 full seasons before I gave up on Rusty. But can confirm now— he is a bonafide cuckboi. He can’t get out of his own way enough to play winning football. Nobody on the team has a shred of respect for the guy. They need to bite the bullet and cut him asap

ramsfan2988

Russ is doin just fine. His numbers this season proves it. As a team yea the team record is bad.

4north82xbox

That dude ruined my Sunday so many times. He absolutely owned The 49ers. I wonder what happened to him, there isn't any logical reason that he would fall off like that.

Ballsy
-2 points

I think it’s because he can only get off when he watches other guys bang his wife